Hi Charles

As one of the contributors to PC Update I welcome your feedback. Although I don't speak for the rest of the editorial team, I'm a little befuddled by your comments.

There's no doubt that you've made a huge contribution to the Melb PC UG. As a member of the group you have the right, perhaps even obligation, to speak up when things aren't going as well as they could.

However, the Melb PC freelancers you refer to (I'm one of them - Melbourne born and bred, never lived anywhere else, never want to!) are spread all over Australia. Some are in Sydney, some from the NSW north coast, some in WA. When I was asked to contribute to PC Update, it wasn't on the basis of where I lived, it was on the basis of delivering quality content that matched the membership's need. I wasn't aware that location of the writers was a big deal. Surely it's about the quality of the content and the value it delivers. Are the user issues in Melbourne different to those elsewhere? I'd argue that the experience of some of the writers who live in rural areas would offer an insight that city-dwelling members might find interesting.

Am I paid for it - sure I am. I'm a professional journalist. Giving my work away for nothing establishes its value as nothing. But the rate I receive is by far the lowest of any publication I write for. That's not to say that I submit sub-standard work. I see it as a compromise between putting food on the table and contributing to a community.

As for the shrinking numbers of user group members - surely you haven't missed this Internet thing? User communities don't have to be regionally based anymore. I'm a part of many online communities and, using tools like Twitter, Facebook, user forums and instant messaging I can join and engage in communities without being part of a "bricks and mortar" organisation. The need for enthusiast groups will always exist but it's shrinking. I don't know of any user group (PC, Mac, etc) of any significance that's growing.

We can chat about this over a coffee if you like (you have my number and email address) as I'd be very interested in what you think can be done to make the mag better. I'm sure David Hague, the editor, would too.

Anthony Caruana

Perhaps rather than saying "most of the freelancers are from Sydney", I should have said "scarcely any are from Melbourne".

Of course Melbourne has issues that are specific to Melbourne, unless you just want to write the same old reviews and how-to stories that you can pick up in thousands of online and print publications. Already I've noticed that when people are quoted in the magazine, they tend to be from Sydney or elsewhere. It looks bloody awful, in my opinion. That would be one of the first things I'd be telling the editor to fix.

The things that are different about Melbourne include the fact that we used to have the world's largest PC user group - unlike Sydney, which has never had anything like Melb PC. Never had anything like the Green Guide for that matter.

Don't try to patronise me about "this Internet thing". I was aware of it, using it and writing about it, long before you were, Anthony. But not everything worthwhile in the world exists on the Internet.

The fact that you imply that you don't care about a "bricks and mortar organisation", and that you just take for granted that of course such organisations are going to shrink troubles me enormously.

What should be at the top of your mind, and the editor's mind, is the fact that the magazine is Melb PC's most valued asset, dedicated since its inception to helping maintain this particular bricks and mortar organisation.

You should be aware that Melb PC SIGs are a wonderful community asset, allowing people to meet in person and educate and help each other. It would be a tragedy if we lost it. And take my word for it, that's a very real prospect right now.

You should be looking for stories that foster the growth and survival of this bricks and mortar oganisation, instead of implying that it can all be so easily replaced by Twittr and Flickr and Stuttr and Muttr or whatever.

I'd be curious to know what qualifications you have as a professional journalist, since you take such delight in calling yourself one. If I were your editor, I'd be telling you to get your notebook out and do some real bloody journalism, finding out and writing about what makes Melb PC worthwhile and different, instead of the virtual journalism you seem to be committed to. Perhaps you're too easily befuddled.

Anthony Caruana,
"Giving my work away for nothing establishes its value as nothing"

Rubbish, tell that to all the volunteer workers, the
SES, the rural firefighters the Rotarians etc.

Shows the commitment HE has for the magazine.

Hi Charles

I joined MelbPC as a result your fortnightly ABC program with Jon Faine. I'm still a member and still miss the program even now.

Many of the comments you make in your blog are justified but so are many of Anthony's. I attend many of the SIGs and have not heard any negative comments about you so you should not feel slighted.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you note that the editor is from Perth and new to our MelbPC. He probably isn't aware of you, your journalistic background and I'm sure would love any contributions. He has called for articles from members and in their absence has had to resort to paid writers. (I think Helen Bradley comes from Sale or at least did).

Like you I will give PCupdate time to bed in before we can say too much but it looks good and the April issue did arrive before the monthly meeting.

I was hoping to see you in the flesh (at MelbPC April Monthly meeting) but Melbourne's wild weather prevented me from leaving the "cave" last Wednesday. It was the spouse who put her foot downwhen when the news reported police recommended only essential traffic should enter the city that night. Please come and talk to us again but at Deakin which usually pulls bigger crowds.

You mentioned the Green Guide and this leads me to a gripe I have with The Age website. Numerous supplements appear on its website except for the Green Guide Livewire section. Why is it so? Articles by you, Terry, Adam et al probably out number those of Next. If you have any influence could you follow this issue up. If I could find a link to the Age webmaster I'd email my complaint to him direct. Maybe it's a intellectual property issue but feel free to pass this on to the Age webmaster if you wish.

I originally posted this on April 7 (or thereabouts) but it was lost in the ether it would seem. Fortunately I had copy/pasted it to Notepad before submitting.

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To everyone - thanks for taking the time to read and respond to Charles'post and my response.

In response to the comments:

Iomaca said: "Giving my work away for nothing establishes its value as nothing"

Rubbish, tell that to all the volunteer workers, the SES, the rural firefighters the Rotarians etc.

Shows the commitment HE has for the magazine.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - I was asked to contribute to PC Update in my role as a journalist. I did contribute, voluntarily, to PCU some years ago (see http://snurl.com/23mxc and spoke at a monthly meeting in 2006 (see http://snurl.com/23mxe). I think that comparing the excellent volunteer work of the the groups you mention with what I was saying is something of an "apples and oranges" comparison

I'm committed to making PCU a magazine that people buy when they walk into the newsagents. I've not seen recent circulation figures but I hope they increase. I would hope that the content I create for PCU helps that happen.

Neil Muller: In response to your comment - The current technology section of The Age online is a shambles. Trying to find Garry Barker's column each week is a lottery. Charles' column isn't online at all anymore (but i believe that was a decision made by Charles. Perhaps Charles can comment. The current online editor is, I believe, Stephen Hutcheon.

Charles W said: "Don't try to patronise me about "this Internet thing". I was aware of it, using it and writing about it, long before you were, Anthony. But not everything worthwhile in the world exists on the Internet.

Sorry Charles - I wasn't being patronising - I was being sarcastic. As for your patronising "I was using it in...". Perhaps you were. I was using Telnet, Lynx, Gopher and the like in the early 1990s. Perhaps you were there before. I'm not sure that it matters. Before that I was at school so there's no surprise if you were writing about it before me.

Charles said: I'd be curious to know what qualifications you have as a professional journalist, since you take such delight in calling yourself one.

No formal journalism qualification Charles. Wish I had them as I'm sure they'd make me better at what I do. I'd do it now except that I'm already in the middle of a Master's degree that I'd like to focus on. For the record, my other qualifications are a B. Sc, Grad Dip Ed and a M. Info. Sys (Mngmnt). I'm currently doing a theology degree (a Masters degree).

Why do I call myself professional? I get paid for it. Also, my work appears in several magazines each month and the editors that hire me continue to offer me more work. However, I'm not sure why you chose to play the man here rather than the issue of the Melb PC User Group's future.

Charles said: If I were your editor, I'd be telling you to get your notebook out and do some real bloody journalism, finding out and writing about what makes Melb PC worthwhile and different, instead of the virtual journalism you seem to be committed to. Perhaps you're too easily befuddled.

Actually, the next thing I'm writing is in direct response to requests from PCU readers.

I'm not sure what you mean by "virtual journalism".

Perhaps you can help me Charles - can you suggest a Melb PC specific topic you'd like covered?

As far as the original topic - I love user groups. I've been a member of several, started one (sadly, it died when I handed the reigns over to someone else as I believed that it needed more than just me to survive), been president of another and continue to participate and assist any that ask me. I've spoken at a couple this year and do what I can to support them.

However, I think they need to change significantly or they will die. The era of the large, young enthusiast membership for PCs has passed. I suspect that UGs will maintain a steady membership because older people (based on what I see, memberships seem to concentrated in the over 50s) will want to gather to discuss and learn about topics of interest together. That, in my view, is Melb PC's strength. The SIGs are the key element.

Every user group I've spoken to seems to suffer from the same issues of dwindling and aging memberships. Developer groups seem to do quite well from my observations (I've not done detailed research in this area so this is just anecdotal) although they are tightly focussed and when the new technology becomes old technology the group breaks up.

I very pleased that you've opted to try and join the committee and assist from within. I wish you all good things and hope that Melb PC continues to thrive.